Talk Learning With Me

This episode kicks off the Strategic Learning Series, focused on helping learning professionals build credibility, trust, and influence through higher-quality work.

Joseph sits down (in person) with Tom Jager, a Learning and Development Manager at Smurfit Westrock, to explore a simple but transformative standard:

Would people be willing to pay for the learning experiences you create?

Tom breaks down why corporate L&D often defaults to “good enough,” how leadership support enables creative risk-taking, and why weak feedback loops let low-quality learning persist.

He defines what “high fidelity” actually means in practice, shares a real example of “TikTok training” that drove surprising demand, and offers a practical path for leveling up: copy great work, critique it, then iterate until you break into a higher tier of quality and speed.

• A supportive leader creates room to experiment, stretch, and improve.

• High-fidelity learning signals intention, quality, and respect for the learner’s time.

• Most corporate learning lacks a tight feedback loop, so mediocre work often goes unchallenged.

• Learning can be hard because of the skill being built, not because the experience is frustrating.

• Creativity can elevate routine training without turning everything into a production.

• Copying and critiquing strong examples accelerates skill growth and design judgment.

• Incentives and expectations inside L&D often reward completion over quality.

• Real-world application increases engagement and perceived value.

• Collaboration makes innovation easier and raises the quality bar faster.

• Continuous improvement beats perfectionism. Small gains compound.

• “Learning that is so good people would pay for it.”

• “Copy people to level up your skills.”

• “Feedback loops are essential for improvement.”

00:00 In-person setup and introduction
01:20 Meet Tom – Learning and Development Manager
01:34 What Tom loves about L&D
02:21 Creativity and intentional design in L&D
05:07 Defining high-fidelity learning
07:35 Expectations in corporate L&D
09:55 Why feedback loops matter
11:12 Shifting your mindset toward elevated standards
14:15 Tom’s journey to higher-quality work
19:19 Leadership and collaboration as creative enablers
21:46 Real-world impact of elevated learning experiences
22:35 Where to start when leveling up your skills
25:22 Copying and critiquing as a growth strategy
28:25 Feedback, iteration, and continuous improvement
29:28 Resources for creative development
33:58 Transforming learning into something people would choose
34:51 Building feedback loops and learning strategies

Resources Mentioned (Not affiliated in any way)

• Everything Is a Remix (video series) by Kirby Ferguson (Everything is a Remix)

• Lovable (used to build a simulation experience) (Lovable)

• Articulate Storyline 360 (Articulate)

• Adobe Captivate (Adobe)

• Articulate Rise 360 (Articulate)

• Camtasia (TechSmith) (TechSmith)

• Vygotsky’s Zone of Proximal Development (overview) (ScienceDirect)

  E-Learning Heroes (examples to critique, community and inspiration) (Articulate Community)

  CONNECT WTIH TOM

• LinkedIn (best place to follow Tom’s work and experiments) (LinkedIn)

• Overtime Courses (Tom’s work with micro-influencers and digital products) (Overtime Learning)

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